“And Your Shoulder Blade Strength Starts to Pick Up, Your Shoulders Start to Feel Better. You Add Like 2, 3, 4 MPH On Your Velo Like That, ‘But I didn’t Throw Harder’”
Dr. Jocelyn Vartanian Interview 2022-02-24
[00:00:00] Joey Myers: Hello and welcome to the Swing Smarter Hitting Training podcast. This is your host, Joey Myers from Hitting Performance Lab.com. And I have a friend forever Dr. Jocelyn and it is Vartanian, right Vartanian, Jocelyn Fernandez, but obviously married and has a family now and all that kind of stuff. And she is a physical therapist.
[00:00:27] So first I want to welcome to the show, Jocelyn. And did you want me to, since we've known each other so long, you want me to call you Dr. Joce. I can call you Dr. Joce. I can call you doctor Kevorkian.
[00:00:37] Dr. Jocelyn Vartanian: Ha-ha, right!
[00:00:40] Joey Myers: All right. I wanted to have Jocelyn on, because in the past we've looked at doing collaborative stuff and never really panned out. We're doing like a big hitting camp or baseball, softball. And I just think Jocelyn's got her head in the right spot. She does as a PT because there are some PTs out there maybe that went to school maybe 30 years ago, 40 years ago.
[00:01:02] And they're just not updated on the current stuff. And she, I think she does a great job with that. And where that keyed in is I think I finished a functional muscle screen. This was a while back. I think that's about when we reconnected after school and all that kind of stuff. And she was talking about, in the same language.
[00:01:20] So she had gone through a lot of that stuff. And so first my first question to you, Jocelyn, is, so you said that you've had a huge influx of new clients, athletes, right? That have come in recently. And I asked her jokingly, it was at the cause of the baseball softball season started and she said everything.
[00:01:35] So what are you seeing coming in right now?
You've had a huge influx of new clients, athletes... what are you seeing coming in right now?
[00:01:37] Dr. Jocelyn Vartanian: It's always everything. It just ebbs and flows depending on the time of year, both because of seasons. And then with athletes in particular off-season during season pre-season type of stuff like that. But COVID kind of threw a wrench in a lot of operations.
[00:01:52] So a lot of surgeries that postponed because they became elective surgeries, even though, the patient themselves wouldn't have called it elective. And [00:02:00] so we're still seeing a delay in a lot of those cases coming through and so more are coming through as some of the restrictions are lifting. And I see everything I honestly can see a surgery or an injury on every single body part.
[00:02:13] And I take everything. I take preemies like babies that I had a three-month-old yesterday. I have 102-year-olds. You see, everything at this clinic. For me, I work probably more often with more high school and collegiate baseball and softball players, both because of major injuries of overuse and, or I'll see off season pros because of whoever lives locally works through one of our baseball academies locally. And they've transitioned out in this past month because everybody had to report back.
[00:02:46] So it's an ebb and flow depending on time of year and season of sport. And it's not just baseball, softball. I see all sports.
[00:02:54] Joey Myers: Now zeroing in on say the softball girls, right? You can even compare contrast. What do you see different in softball, girls coming in with injuries versus the guys? Or is there any difference?
What do you see different in softball, girls coming in with injuries versus the guys? Or is there any difference?
[00:03:05] Dr. Jocelyn Vartanian: NO, there is, a softball tends to be shoulder, low back, and ankle, like ankle sprains, sliding in and things like that.
[00:03:13] I work probably more often with pitchers than positional athletes, mostly because they are in more of the overused category. A 16-year-old that pitches versus a 16-year-old first baseman does not throw as often. Usually during season pre-season, post-season, it doesn't matter.
[00:03:32] Baseball players tend to be heavy elbow and shoulder. And it depends on what the issue is, but I get the little league elbow up to the Tommy John surgery, ulnar, nerve transposition. And so that's more of a post-op bigger kind of situation. And then there's always those, field players that make an epic catch that dove for some ball ran into the wall, Stuff like that, that, that creates a little bit more usually shoulder impact type stuff.
[00:03:59] And it can [00:04:00] still be major injury stuff. But as far as baseball, softball, shoulders are always going to be more involved, but baseball goes elbow a little bit more into some risks. Softball tends to go a little low back.
[00:04:13] Joey Myers: That's interesting because I don't know if but I'm, part-timing this year with Clovis west baseball. Yeah. It would normally be Bullard, but we live right across the street from Clovis west, and by the way, I forgot to mention that Jocelyn played softball all the way through high school.
[00:04:26] So our group of friends, we were close. We had. Co-ed group of friends that didn't get in too much trouble. We got in some trouble, but not too much. Jocelyn's in the softball side, she understands that sport. So yeah, it's interesting you say that because the first couple of weeks it was, what was it with the guy’s ankles?
[00:04:43] It was ankles. It was just like an ankle blow up every other day when we had half a dozen ankles. And what's your advice on the ankle side of things? Yeah.
What's your advice on the ankle side of things?
[00:04:52] Dr. Jocelyn Vartanian: And once you have an ankle sprain, you're going to get another one. I don't care how much you rehab it or it's going to happen again. And it will continue to happen at a rapid rate. If you don't rehab it correctly, however preseason type injuries like this, like ankles it often is a, you forgot how to move and you stop moving and you concentrated on something that.
[00:05:16] It was probably helpful. Like maybe it's an off-season strength training or you did some other stuff, but a lot of kids lose their mobility that they require, and they develop during season because it's so repetitive because they stopped squatting. They stopped doing things like that. And it happens in that goes for all joints, all the joints.
[00:05:36] But for ankles, it becomes... baby giraffes on the field that are probably skilled and gifted and they have a lot of the talent, but you take for granted small little, agility type movements and then conditions, field conditions can always play a part. If you go right out and you haven't played on the grass and you haven't checked the actual [00:06:00] field to see for gopher holes, pot, holes, and stuff, and then are you even wearing cleats? Did you forget to bring them or rainy day? You're all court based.
[00:06:08] And that is completely different movement patterns when you have a different type of terrain, but it's, it doesn't matter what time of the year it is. If you stopped moving the way you need to move for your sport or your job or whatever you're going to have a kink that you must work through, but you must be focused on it. You can't just get back to baseball by playing baseball. There are specific things that you should probably be working on before you go into that first day of practice or like double days or something like that.
[00:06:39] Joey Myers: We used to do this back in the day. We'd just throw a ball against the house, if you’re not going to ruin the stucco or whatever, but just that idea of going back and forth, fielding ground balls, like that would get you in that because it's more agility. And I think that's where most of the guys, you got some of them that are growing that hit major growth spurts.
[00:06:55] So some of them have her lower back, which we'll get to, with the ankles there, there's an agility side of things. Cause now you're running bases. Like you said, sitting at home, watching Netflix, watching outer banks and all these shows that they watch, and they haven't been moving agility wise.
[00:07:10] And like you said, they have, maybe it's been in the gym working with a coach, but they're not working on that side-to-side plane. What, like top two things would you suggest they do to help with those ankles?
What top two things would you suggest they do to help with those ankles?
[00:07:21] Dr. Jocelyn Vartanian: Your dorsi flection, which is your ability to bend your foot. Toes up towards your shin is your primary motion you need to keep mobile in my opinion, which means that like a standing calf stretch, bent knee, straight knee, but the kneeling version of really driving your knee inside and outside of your ankle. To keep that angle loose. And I don't have a restriction in my joint is number one on a joint specific movement.
[00:07:49] As far as agility goes, that takes loading it and high repetition into all directions. So even if baseball, softball, you [00:08:00] run forward, but then you must cut off first base, run the second, or you're a middle infield player. You must be ready to charge back left, right, rotate, pick up some crazy balls, sling it across. If you haven't been training multiplanar direction for even lunges, right?
[00:08:18] You don't have to start off running towards the ground ball, but multi-directional lunges. Multi-directional band walks, things like that. Balance like star balance reach where you stand on one leg and your other leg reaches out in different directions. And you're trying to not break in your one leg.
[00:08:35] You're training all these muscles to work in all three dimensions. And when you stop doing that, you're, if you don't use it, you lose it. You do not have the input to your brain from your brain to your nerves, to your muscle, to connect quick enough for you to stay on top of it. There's a mobility aspect, always, and a stability aspect, always, for every single joint.
[00:08:57] It doesn't matter. But if you do not have joint motion, you will not be agile. You will not be strong. You will not be anything that you are trying to train into if you lose your mobility. So joint restrictions, if you lose that ability to bend your ankle, it's going to already predispose you to usually the most common ankle injury.
[00:09:19] Is an inversion lateral ankle sprain. It's a, my toe pointed a little bit more. And then I rolled out on it. And if I couldn't get into that deep position, so like I'm bendy at that ankle. You're up higher in a higher position than your ankle, if it's not loaded down, because it can't go it, you almost allow it to roll.
[00:09:41] So it's always all joints. It's always mobility first, can it move cleanly, move well into as much direction as it should, and then you better train it in every direction. Yeah. Even if you threw the ball flopped it here, we have a rebounder like a trampoline, but say you use your wall example, throw it at different angles so [00:10:00] that you must react and you must move into different angles as low with it.
[00:10:04] But you're practicing the same footwork every single time. You're trying to drill that repetition of, I can squat down hands down butt down, which means my ankles, hips, knees, everything must've hinge down. And then come up. You don't even have to throw it aggressive. Just repeat, go again.
[00:10:21] Joey Myers: I really liked those omni-directional balls, the rubber ones that have the nodules on them because they're unpredictable where they balance.
[00:10:27] It will take the kids. I'm like Noah at nine years old and his team will put them in a circle, and we have three of them. We'll start with one. We'll throw it. We'll have them lob it like a hand grenade, just lob it in the middle and then just let it go. And then they must. Yeah, they must move.
[00:10:41] Yeah. They don't know where they're moving, and they got to go back forward, and I just love them. And then we'll throw two in like they throw two in the middle and then now you got multiples and now you've got some reaction steps. So that's a great advice for them. And the other thing I noticed on the base paths with these guys at west is that they'll when they're going back to a base, if they're doing pickoffs or something like that, and they go in standing is they'll go in and their foot, when it hits the bag, there'll be loose with it.
[00:11:06] They won't be intentional with it. And I told him, I told them, I said, you need to hit that back hard with that foot. Like you're going hard. Everything is nice and solid when you hit, instead of just nice, easy baby in it, when you hit the base, because now you don't have any stability if you're doing that.
[00:11:19] And then boom thing, like you said, that roll happens. Let's go to the lower back. You mentioned in the ladies, and you see a lot of lower back stuff. What kind of advice would you give for the ladies on that?
On low back stuff, what kind of advice would you give the ladies?
[00:11:30] Dr. Jocelyn Vartanian: In that case, and it's not just the ladies in a sense, it's usually ladies will, especially teenager type stuff. They move very well. They have the mobility; they don't have the stability. Guys at that age are stiff, stuck, and some of them can move well, but, and then they try to move it and they just bare down.
[00:11:51] But that's different than having a controlled movement with it. If you are a bendy person, you should be working in a more stability type stuff, but again, in all [00:12:00] directions, because you can't just be strong in a sit-up because most of our life is not flexed forward, where I need my abs to suddenly be super tight.
[00:12:09] I must be able to be strong in an open position. It should be strong. When I cock back into my full throwing position, it should be strong loaded. When I go into a swing, which is more rotational kind of stability. And that kind of case I always recommend planks in any type of version, because I need you to recruit muscles the proper way without adding reactionary, crazy kind of movement stuff.
[00:12:34] Because if you can't engage still, then you're probably not engaging well, when you go to move. And you can start any type of position for a lot of people. I might start them in an elevated plank because I want them to focus like I said, on the neural drive of coordinating which muscles are supposed to move and which ones are supposed to stabilize and things like that. Work your way down to the floor, a high plank, you get your arms, you get your biceps triceps to help when you take it away and you go on forearms.
[00:13:06] You only have shoulder blades, which are the weakest in every human population. And I don't care if you throw every day and you're an athlete, you are weak in your shoulder girdle. And your scapula needs a little bit more reinforcement there as well. If that helps support, you with. It coordinates with your abs with your low back muscles to really stabilize your low back, but side planks, side plank, rotatory planks.
[00:13:29] All those types of things are very important on an upright position; this is where you can do a lot of carries. Like you might do like a waiter's carry where you're holding, kettlebell, dumbbell up suitcase carry down and you're trying not to move. But yet you're walking with a load.
[00:13:44] You've used your abs in everyday life and when you don't have them, is when are you, when you have low back pain, you realize like how hard it is to engage them and support them. Cause you just take them for granted. But Low back is an endless amount of opportunity on exercise [00:14:00] variation, but it depends on are you recruiting well, and then we can progress from there.
[00:14:04] If you cannot recruit well, I must regress you. And usually that means you start on your back, and you just work on pelvic tilts, where you engage your abdominals to do what you're asking them to do. If you're trying to engage your abdominals to like, flex your low back and tilt your hips backwards, like a dog tucks its tail.
[00:14:23] And then I want you to rock it forward. And I want you to arch your back and if you have zero control over that. Like we must start there. You're not even standing. You're not loaded. You're not against gravity. There's not a ball coming at your face that you have just swing in it or catch it. It depends on the skillset in general.
[00:14:41] And then, like I said, it's an endless opportunity from there to work in progression into more functional movements or sport specific movements because of maybe your specific position.
[00:14:54] Joey Myers: Yeah. I love that more great advice. And the other thing from the hitting side that we'll see in both boys and girls is the arching of the back they're swinging and arching.
[00:15:04] And I tell him, I said, it's when you arch... Arching by itself isn't a big deal. You're basically pushing those vertebras together, but what makes it a big deal is when you arch and rotate. So now you're pushing together and now you're grinding.
[00:15:18] Dr. Jocelyn Vartanian: If you lock out a joint, can it move? No, because you just locked it out. But understanding that your arch or your anti-arch, how much you must flex into it to not lock. Can look and feel different compared to, your teammates. And it still is going to be based off your feel. And then I would counter with why are you arching? They're not going to know necessarily.
[00:15:42] They just know to do it, but they're probably avoiding something else because that part isn't helping. It could come back to the ankles, don't bend, so you must stand up taller. To stand up taller and to rotate, you lose some of your power in the hips. Then you over swing through your trunk, your low [00:16:00] back and your arms.
[00:16:01] And so it, and then what pitching are you facing? Girls have a different trajectory or softball players have a different trajectory than on the pitch coming at them than a baseball player. If you are pitching or hitting against a certain type of style pitcher and you don't make adaptations to it, and you just try to swing harder by arching more.
[00:16:20] And you're not taking advantage of probably somewhere else in the kinetic chain. You're not using something else properly.
[00:16:26] Joey Myers: I see that back leg a lot of times locking out like the knee locks out. It's like they go into a triple extension with the hip, the knee, and the ankle.
[00:16:34] And usually to me, because you don't see that often at the elite level and you see the somewhat of a bend might not all be 90, 90 degrees in the knee, but you got 110 degrees, 90 degrees, something like that. And yeah, exactly. There's some sort of compensation because of either a past injury, a current injury or there's just compensation that's been built up over, over time. Like you said, something's turned off, something's over, turned on, volume too much.
[00:16:58] Yeah. Very cool. And then now let's move to the shoulder before we in end on that. Cause that's a big one. All boys and girls must throw, they must go overhand aside from the pitchers and softball, but still, if they're going to play the field, they got to throw overhand.
[00:17:10] So what's your advice on shoulder? You mentioned that the boys are the elbow really elbow heavy shoulder. What's your advice there?
What's your advice on shoulder? You mentioned that the boys are the elbow really elbow heavy shoulder...
[00:17:17] Dr. Jocelyn Vartanian: If it's not painful in the shoulder, it's just, you're not moving well, you probably don't have full mobility. Okay. We come back to your shoulder is as ball and socket joint. It's a circle. It must move in every direction without any hitch, without any Ooh, I feel some like pinchy pain, something like that.
[00:17:38] So if you're already having pain that's going to change your mechanics. So that's already going to your brain is smart. It's your brain. It doesn't choose the correct movement. It chooses the movement it needs to do to accomplish its job. If you can't throw over the top and you start developing a three-quarter slot angle, and it's just a position player, not necessarily a pitcher and you have [00:18:00] some type of restriction in your joints, you're probably going to do something different.
[00:18:03] You're probably going to drop your arm. You're probably going to open too soon. Which then causes an over utilization of your elbow, because now you're going to whip through the front of your shoulder and you're going to start to drop and use more of like your elbow. But if it's not restricted, then it's probably a weakness.
[00:18:21] And it's your shoulder blade weakness and your hip weakness. You are not able to generate the, like cracking a whip phenomenon, of you crack it from the start to get the end to snap. And if you're throwing or hitting, and your foundation is not efficient, you're going to overthrow, overuse your shoulder. And it leads to a lot of strain type injuries.
[00:18:44] Girls, it tends to be a little bit more biceps related bicep long, head, kind more front because of an overuse. Guys, it becomes more rotator. And so that's felt a little bit more to the side and they'll grab it and they're going to try to find it and they can't find it because rotator cuff is on the back, but your pain is in front.
[00:19:01] So that becomes like another mechanical issue, but why am I doing it? There's probably a weakness. Your shoulder blade shoulders are probably too weak. If you cannot do a circle with your shoulders, if you cannot get them to where my elbows can touch my ears. I cannot extend back. I cannot put the back of my hand up my back without some weird hitching kind of compensation.
[00:19:23] You don't have enough mobility. That is your start, which you need to work on. If it's I can move. I'm just, I don't feel good after I throw a certain time. There's probably a strengthening component to that. And in that case, I do the same thing, a lot of planks and a lot of plank variations in different ways to engage your shoulder blades, to be able to protract forward retract when they're supposed to.
[00:19:46] And you build a little bit more foundational strength from the top of your arm so that your shoulder doesn't have to overwork, which helps you not overwork your elbow, which helps you not work into your wrist. That one's kind of loaded, but it's one of my favorite joints, shoulders and [00:20:00] hips are my favorite because they have endless opportunity for improvement.
[00:20:04] But what's your issue. If you can't move, you can't move it. You're not going to get strong. And now you're going to try to throw on it, like good luck. You're going to see me in six weeks and then I must undo something. But depending on what's going on, like I said, you might just add a little bit more shoulder blade work into your routine that you normally do when you do your strength training, and you might start to just find better results like your shoulders just feel strong.
[00:20:28] And then always talk to your coach because you might not, you feel what you feel as the player, you can't see what is happening necessarily. And if you're like, hey coach, I'm feeling this.
[00:20:42] Then their eyes might be able to say oh it's funny that you mentioned it, but I've noticed that you're now doing this. And there's another mechanical issue that maybe somebody else can help guide you as to why you are developing this new pain or new habits.
[00:20:56] Joey Myers: I love that. When you mentioned a lot of the plank stuff, whether it's full-out hands here or going this way.
[00:21:02] So what you're saying is getting that plank type of position, like the top of a pushup, and then pulling your shoulder blades down, pinching them, bringing them...
[00:21:12] Dr. Jocelyn Vartanian: Like the whole thing. You should have independent control of your shoulder blades and most people don't. And for the most part everybody's thinks... you might hold a plank or hold and do pushups, but your back is very arch even in your upper back and you'll see shoulder blades just fly off.
[00:21:27] You can see it through the shirts that shoulder blades are like pointing up and they're not flat against your thoracic spine. It means that you're not using those muscles that are underneath it, help glue that down to your rib cage. And usually that's a pushy type of motion. And so most people need a little bit more protraction.
[00:21:43] Because everybody thinks back. Are you engaging it when you should? If there is a pushing strength training that you're doing and it could still, it could literally be chest press dumbbell, but instead of going forward, I push further into it to engage [00:22:00] that shoulder blade and dumbbell barbell doesn't mean.
[00:22:02] Weighted it, your body weight when you flip it, and you go planks is your own body weight. And I like it better because it gives an immediate, I can do this, or I can't do this. And people get shocked and they're like, wide-eyed at me because they're like, I can't believe I can't hold a top of a plank or move from here, but I can throw at 90 miles an hour, and it's, that's different.
“And your shoulder blade strength starts to pick up, your shoulders start to feel better. You add like 2, 3, 4 miles an hour on your velo like that, but I didn't throw harder”
[00:22:25] Those are different. But imagine if you are like a pitcher. And your shoulder blade strength starts to pick up, your shoulders start to feel better. You add like 2, 3, 4 miles an hour on your velo like that, but I didn't throw harder. So like endless opportunity, like I said, at the shoulder joint, which I really love But I think people can get out of it because you can always just find a new angle and you'll just deal with it until it's not good.
[00:22:51] Joey Myers: Yeah. It's almost like the governor on a truck or a bus, right? The governor and the engine, right where, so the engine Derek Mills, one time we went down to. And we were on the highway 99 or no, no highway 1 0 1. And it was like four lanes, five lanes, whatever. And he goes, hey, watch this. We were in his white Silverado truck, and he floors it and we're, we're all, there's four of us in the car, our friend, the truck, and he's going, and he goes, watch the odometer and it goes up to 90.
[00:23:14] And then right when it passes nine, he goes to. When it came back down. And the brain is the same way. When you have an injury, you have a mobility issue. Stability issue is that it acts like a governor to your performance. And I tell my players, I tell them, your brain, like you said, your brain smart brains, the thinking part of your body.
[00:23:31] And if there's an issue, it will be about survival. It's not about performance. It doesn't care if you can throw 95, it doesn't care if you can hit a ball 450 feet, it's going to protect your joint in your body. It's going to... instead of allowing a hundred percent performance. It's going to bring you down to about 80%.
[00:23:46] Like you said, with that shoulder pitcher thing 90, why throw 90, but I can't even do a plank. Imagine if you can do a plank and you can, like you said, you add another two to three miles, an hour of velo?
[00:23:57] Dr. Jocelyn Vartanian: And for the most part I [00:24:00] talk about it. If you have pain anywhere in your body, your brain doesn't know if you’re causing your pain or somebody else is doing it to you.
[00:24:09] So it goes on protection mode. It goes on self-preservation mode, and it stops the ability to use a hundred percent of that muscle, because it can't tell what's happening. And if anybody has had a surgery, they understand that you come out of surgery and you try to contract your muscles, say you've had an ACL reconstruction try to contract your quad and it like, doesn't do it, but it didn't just forget how to do it.
[00:24:33] It's still traumatized even from a good surgery. It doesn't know you had a good surgery. It just knows there's pain. I'm going to shut you down because I don't want you to risk further pain. It's not a. Oh, I can do this, willpower it over. There are some ways that you need to be able to back off and be like, okay, I need to take care of this issue.
[00:24:54] And then I take care of that issue and then boom, my performance improved.
[00:24:57] Joey Myers: Awesome stuff, Jocelyn. So be respectful your time. Let's go get into where people can find you. I know you have you guys’ website, is Pro-PT.net. We're, in Fresno let people know where they can find you.
Let people know where they can find you...
[00:25:12] Dr. Jocelyn Vartanian: Yeah. I'm the director of Fresno west. My location is off Herndon and West Avenue. We have 17 locations between the south valley and north valley for pro PT in general. You can probably find one of us almost anywhere. And then, like I said, that I worked specifically out of here. And I have a lot of athletes come in to see me because I just have a little bit more expertise in, in a lot of these sports’ kind of areas.
[00:25:35] But in general, it's if you can get in anywhere, anytime you have some type of pain or problem, and you're like I should probably get checked. Just get in and see a medical professional. But yeah, I would love to check you out. Not everybody becomes a long-term crazy patient. Sometimes you just get evaluated, get screened, see where your issues are.
[00:25:56] And then we build a program for you to work with your strength coach, you [00:26:00] already, maybe I already have something or maybe you don't have anything. And this kind of becomes like a wake-up call of I should probably start something more proactive so that I stopped this injury cycle from happening and coaches like you and particularly.
[00:26:14] I'd like to talk back and forth with the coaches, with the parents. Everybody's still on a game plan. There's like a medical team approach, but the full team approach for you as the player, so that we keep you on the field. We don't have to take you off the field for as little time as we absolutely need to basically.
[00:26:30] Joey Myers: Yeah. And Dr. Jocelyn, and she knows exactly what she's doing. She's a critical thinker. She does it all. And she got a lot of knowledge, a lot of experience wisdom in this field. And if you don't just depend on your coach's word, don't even depend on my word because we're not even supposed to diagnose pain.
[00:26:45] If there's pain, I have to find a doctor Jocelyn to work with the hitters. And I'm okay with that. I'm okay with that. I don't want to ruin. Jocelyn's got a lot more education in this than I do. I have surface level compared to her, so we let the professionals do what the professionals do, get their point of view, get what they need to do.
[00:27:03] And then take that, like she said, as like a community or a team that you put together and everybody works together doing their own thing, standing in their own lanes and adding to that athlete because the days are gone of the just tough it out. Oh. But my elbow feels like it's going to break.
[00:27:18] No. Just tough it out. It's all about mental toughness. That those days are dead and gone.
[00:27:23] Dr. Jocelyn Vartanian: Yeah. You rarely rest anything to death. I sit to death or take any anti-inflammatories and it's going to be some magical cure.
[00:27:31] Joey Myers: Very cool. Thank you, Dr. Jocelyn stays on really quick.
[00:27:33] I'm going to stop the recording, but hey, I appreciate your time. On with today at the swing smarter hitting training podcast.
